Rules Changes - Bylaws Revision Control

[Carl Nott]

Before going down this road I'd ask the student advisor if sweepstakes has the power to dictate how a team is punished if they are found by the fire marshall to be creating a fire hazard.

[shafeeq]

Before going down this road I'd ask the student advisor if sweepstakes has the power to dictate how a team is punished if they are found by the fire marshall to be creating a fire hazard.

Clearly, the advisor is willing to accept lesser punishments since neither SDC or Beta were banned.

The fire marshall is employed by CMU to cover the university's ass by making sure that CMU complies with the relevant fire codes and has a reasonable risk from fire. He is qualified to judge what is a fire hazard, and has the authority to do something about it, at least on campus. There's just no way CMU's president is going to say "this bunch of students & alums are better qualified to define risks and danger areas for this one event than the guy I hired to do it the rest of the time." Imagine how that's going to sound in court if someone does sue CMU. If some idiot sets the haybale he's sitting on on fire, CMU can say "it's not our fault, the danger of smoking on top of a pile of hay should be obvious to anyone with a brain." If someone brings a propane tank into their dorm room, CMU can say "it's not our fault that some kid ignored the line in the dorm rules that said you can't create a fire hazard and ignored the I AM A FIRE HAZARD sign on the propane tank, and burned the dorm down."

On the other hand, CMU has left it up to a bunch of students & alums to evaluate the hazards of driving a buggy and define design rules and procedures that keep the risk of being sued by a driver to level that CMU is willing to accept (though one wonders if the definition of "acceptable" would change if anyone in charge actually watched a buggy crash).

[Carl Nott]

Clearly, the advisor is willing to accept lesser punishments since neither SDC or Beta were banned.

True. Since there is obviously wiggle room already I'd suggest just amending the rules to say 'sweepstakes has the ability to render punishment appropriate to the fire hazard perceived', or something to that effect. Maybe add 'all fire hazard violations, regardless of perceived seriousness, will automatically require a meeting with <blah blah> if the violating team wishes to roll the following year'.

On the other hand, CMU has left it up to a bunch of students & alums to evaluate the hazards of driving a buggy and define design rules and procedures that keep the risk of being sued by a driver to level that CMU is willing to accept (though one wonders if the definition of "acceptable" would change if anyone in charge actually watched a buggy crash).

Well I do think that the advisor signs off on the rules and procedures. At least I assume so.

[GraydonL]

Better safe than sorry. History repeats itself. Pick your cliche. I wasn't born before the truck fire in '86 but even I can see that you don't put anything near your truck that gives any notion of a fire hazard. Because of the 0.0001% chance it goes up (probably much higher if we get comfortable/negligent), the sport that we love would be over. As would the need for this website I imagine.

[ahundt]

Since Sweepstakes looks to be having a rules meeting on monday, I wanted to bring this up again. These are still the current bylaws at https://launchpad.net/buggy/

[BuggyBob]

I write technical specifications for living. The buggy rules are a source of amusement and frustration. The spec's for the Space Shuttle are not so detailed. They need to be streamlined and made more performance oriented (such as 'The Buggy shall be safe'), and get rid of all the prescriptive BS about 'infinity stiff steel rods' (there ain't no such thing in the Known Universe).
On the other hand, Buggy has other fish to fry, and re-doing the rules would be huge project, and probably not needed at the moment. But the safety aspects (at the 'gas station' - aka the starting line), could use improvement - such as limiting:
* No bonfires
* No nuclear weapons in the low kiloton range.


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[BuggyBob]

Before going down this road I'd ask the student advisor if sweepstakes has the power to dictate how a team is punished if they are found by the fire marshall to be creating a fire hazard.

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My underline.
This is a good question. 'Who' is' sweepstakes'. and wherein is their authroity granted?
As far as I know, 'Sweepstake' is a 'man-made' group, and its power can be given or taken away. It can also be used in a vindictive way.
I can see The University having an interest in events that are part of student life (like Buggy, and safety matters), and having an independent CMU employee (a fair-minded adult) oversee such events is legit. What I do not like is arbitrary decisions and incomprehensible rules that affect Buggy particpants who really have no intent in harming anyone. Grrr.