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  • Z80 on 2016-Apr-05 10:10:28 Z80 said

    Whether or not you agree that Pike's ban was fair, I think we can all agree that Pike racing under the guise of "Fishing Club" undermines the authority of the school, and of sweepstakes, to control buggy, and that this is a bad thing.

    Buggy needs a strong executive. It is important that someone is there to make decisions beyond the scope of the laws. (They are not inclusive of every situation). Sweepstakes as a governing body is there to promote safety, punish cheating (Alumni building buggies anyone?!, etc), and keep the sport somewhat clean.

    CMU has said that Pike is not allowed to race. If Pike is able then, to race by simply changing its name, then we weaken the authority of sweepstakes to complete its duties. Without a strong governing body buggy will not last long.

    Pike should take one for the team and sit this raceday out.
  • 123 on 2016-Apr-05 12:13:31 123 said

    It was not CMU, but the All Greek Community Standards Board (with no jurisdiction over Sweepstakes) that banned Pika from racing. The decision to allow the Fishing Club to recruit some of Pika's drivers and pushers was agreed upon by the following groups of people in one meeting: Pika, Sweepstakes, CMU Student Affairs, IFC, AGCSB. Are you suggesting that Pika duped all four of those other organizations?

    If you truly know buggy, then you should understand why these organizations gave some of Pika's drivers and mechanics the opportunity to still participate. To deny them any involvement in a sport that they have contributed 8+ hours each week since the beginning of the school year would be unjustifiably cruel. Sweepstakes has not gone soft. Sweepstakes is rightfully acknowledging all the hard work that some people (not exclusively pikes) have put in consistently over the course of the year. In my opinion, the punishment should have been to ban Pika from racing next year, so that this entire year's preparation would not have gone to waste.

    Side notes: There are nonpikes in the Fishing Club who will be pushing. All of Pika's drivers are nonpikes (obviously). The new buggy was paid exclusively by a pike, not by the fraternity, and therefore does not belong to the fraternity.

    Please make sure you get all your facts straight before making any accusations.
  • spongebob squarewheels on 2016-Apr-05 13:48:25 spongebob squarewheels said

    I, for one, welcome our new fisherperson overloads.
  • MMX on 2016-Apr-05 14:17:41 MMX said

    123 - It has been decided by sweepstakes and the chairmen that PiKA will be allowed to race three men's teams. That means that wholly PiKA owned and built buggies are included in the fishing team roster.
  • Bordick (Cuz I have the balls to put my name on this) on 2016-Apr-05 15:01:47 Bordick (Cuz I have the balls to put my name on this) said

    This entire punishment/jurisdiction issue is nonsense. If there is sufficient cause to sanction an entity, then the sanction should fit within their jurisdiction. For instance, if Pika violates Sweepstakes rules, they can be fined by Sweepstakes, denied permission to compete in Sweepstakes, etc. If they cheat at Greek Sing, same thing.

    In this case, the AGCSB has chosen to extend the typical outcome of their hearings:
    Outcomes can include and not limited to:
    a. Fines – Appropriate fines can be issued in congruence with the allegation.
    b. Restitution – Complete restitution for damaged or loss of property.
    c. Programming – Mandatory participation in relevant alcohol and/or other education
    programming.
    d. Probation – Probation may be imposed for any length of time and may carry a
    combination of stipulation. (Including but not limited to the opportunity to host social
    events.)
    e. Chapter Closure – Closure may be imposed for any length of time and may carry any
    combination of stipulation.
    f. Any outcomes recommended in applicable council policies

    and they have decided to exercise the " . . .not limited to" clause to include targeted limitation in a particular student activity that they believed would cause pain. AFAIK, they were not limited in their participation of Greek Sing, or IM sports, but only buggy.

    Ironically, some of the more productive members of the house are those active in buggy, so they punished the people that are actually contributing the most.

    The house is having challenges. But this targeted punishment will not deter the behavior of those who don't participate in buggy, and sadly, the entire house does not participate these days. The Fishing Team buggy team solution is odd, but the punishment is odder.

    If we want to look at Sweepstakes, let's look at how aggressively they are pursuing safety, promoting the event, keeping the sport alive, etc. When buggies are allowed to roll on weekends with large front hatches attached loosely with tape, they are violating their own safety rules and weakening their authority. By allowing Spirit to continue to spin, without the changes required to ensure driver safety, they weaken their authority. By allowing freerolls to begin with the minimal course cleaning/sweeping, that is obvious from photos, they weaken their authority. I agree that without a strong governing body, the sport won't last long. Look at the current state.
  • maz on 2016-Apr-05 15:20:27 maz said

    Seems unfair for the AGCSB to ban Pika Buggy when they have no jurisdiction over Sweepstakes...Why not stick to punishments directly related to Greek Life like Greek Sing?
  • Shafeeq on 2016-Apr-05 16:32:21 Shafeeq said

    On the bright side, the Fishing Club now has the chance to own the one and only perfect record in buggy history.
  • The cook on 2016-Apr-05 16:56:22 The cook said

    I don't really give a damn about yet another ifc greek council whatever the hell it is over-reach. Let em roll.

    I do find it ironic that Pika will now employ the mercenary pushers that they themselves fought to prevent many times over the years
  • Elmo Zoneball on 2016-Apr-05 17:38:23 Elmo Zoneball said

    Is there some backstory to this that some of us do not know about?

    When was this "ban" promulgated? Recently? What were the circumstances? Do the circumstances have anything to do with Sweepstakes?

    If Pika was tossed off campus a few years back, how can some Greek System Star Chamber have any authority whatsoever over them, and who gave them authority over who can and cannot compete in a campus-wide non-Greek event like Sweepstakes?

    Would somebody please explain what's going on, and why?
  • McCue on 2016-Apr-05 19:33:03 McCue said

    What is an All Greek Community Standards Board? This is like punishing a kid for smoking pot by saying he's not allowed to join the Mathletes.

    That being said:

    > The new buggy was paid exclusively by a pike, not by the fraternity
    What kind of hilarious mental gymnastics does someone have to go through to believe this statement is true or relevant.
  • Zatchmo on 2016-Apr-06 08:38:32 Zatchmo said

    >What kind of hilarious mental gymnastics does someone have to go through to believe this statement is true or relevant.

    I actually think I disagree with that. I'm already having trouble wrapping my head around the concept of group punishment by removal of extracurricular activities for reasons already stated... but if I, random buggy asshole in whatever frat, can't run my frat's buggies, because some other asshole did something I don't really care to speculate on here, what is to stop me from getting my five friends together and self-funding my own damn buggy? Should the university bar me from participating in any way just because I also happen to have associated with some asshole that brought the university's bizarre punishment hammer down on our collective group in the past?
  • McCue on 2016-Apr-06 11:20:20 McCue said

    Sorry, I phrased that badly.

    To clarify: I don't believe the buggy was privately funded (did OP mean that a *single pike* paid for it? ALL of it?). I also think that it doesn't matter; that one detail is not going to affect whether or not anyone is allowed to compete, nor should it.

    I wanted to know what this AGCSB was because the school, in my (and KDR's) experience, doesn't really deal in nuance when it comes to doling out these punishments. I also wanted to make fun of them because this punishment is ridiculous.

    For the record, I am for whatever maximizes participation in buggy.
  • Shafeeq on 2016-Apr-06 11:26:44 Shafeeq said

    The university, because of its own nondiscrimination rules, can't bar 5 friends from joining an independent organization.
    But it can put up enough bureaucratic hurdles to prevent 5 friends from starting their own organization. Sweepstakes is entirely controlled by the Dean, so if he wants all Pikes on double-secret probation, he gets it regardless of what the rules say.

    The Star Chamber doesn't have authority over Sweepstakes, but can threaten PiKA with "withdraw from buggy (which we can't enforce) or we'll give you an even harsher punishment that we do have the authority to enforce." Though I too don't see the sense in "you did something dumb, therefore you must be punished ... by taking away the one thing that required you to focus on being competent."

    PiKA & SigEp were the last 2 significant buggy houses left standing. SigEp seems to be losing interest and PiKA has had constant disciplinary obstacles over the last few years. Why would any new house want to jump into buggy if they know that their participation is going to be used as leverage against them?
  • Zatchmo on 2016-Apr-06 13:20:34 Zatchmo said

    >Why would any new house want to jump into buggy if they know that their participation is going to be used as leverage against them?

    What a succinct way of explaining why CMU sucks so terribly at interacting with it's greek organizations.
  • lr56 on 2016-Apr-06 15:02:26 lr56 said

    In my opinion Sweepstakes should have told this all greek community board directly to back off. If you're an all-greek organization, hand out punishments actually related to Greek Life, like Greek Sing. They have no right to infringe in buggy matters. What an abuse of power. Doesn't make Sweepstakes look any stronger as well.
  • McCue on 2016-Apr-06 16:11:42 McCue said

    Seriously what is this board? Who is on it and what are they charged with doing?
  • dpow on 2016-Apr-06 17:03:27 dpow said

    In reply to all....

    This ruling came out about 4 weeks ago now. Sweepstakes as well as (most) teams offered their support in backing is for Raceday. The AGCSB enforces the policies and regulations of IFC, MGC, and Panhell (all the Greek orgs). When you are sent to an AGCSB hearing, it is compromised of 4 "randomly" selected member of the Greek community. Why they chose to screw us over for Sweepstakes remains unknown because their process and discussions are extremely opaque. High up members of student life offered no help, claiming that student to student policing shouldn't be tampered with. The university and Greek communities were both shooken up with this decision, as many fraternity presidents even spoke out against this. They are now questioning the authority and power that AGCSB holds, and will have a round table discussion on the matter this week. Of course this doesn't help us at all, but at least people aren't blind to how atrocious this is. They wasted the time of many on our team over the past month having meetings, calls, and preparing appeals when we should have been in class or actually preparing for Raceday. Nothing good has come of their idiotic ruling. Thank you to all who supported us as we worked out a way that at least some of our hard working team members could participate in Sweepstakes. And Z80 - fuck off.
  • Elmo Zoneball on 2016-Apr-06 19:12:07 Elmo Zoneball said

    Inspector Javert?
  • Elmo Zoneball on 2016-Apr-06 19:33:42 Elmo Zoneball said

    <blockquote>The AGCSB enforces the policies and regulations of IFC, MGC, and Panhell (all the Greek orgs). When you are sent to an AGCSB hearing, it is compromised of 4 "randomly" selected member of the Greek community. Why they chose to screw us over for Sweepstakes remains unknown because their process and discussions are extremely opaque.</blockquote>

    For some reason the disciplinary hearing scene in "Animal House" springs to mind. The only thing missing is Dean Wormer leading the water-boarding.

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