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Wow - Page 9 - Buggy Alumni Association

Wow

Carleton
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:16 am
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2007
Real Name: Drew Carleton
Location: Maryland

Re: Wow

Postby Carleton » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:11 pm


User avatar
SigNuSi
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:45 pm
Organization: SigNu
Graduation Year: 2010
Real Name: Brett Zakeosian

Re: Wow

Postby SigNuSi » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:35 pm

"...you're telling me that there is literally shit flowing down the back hills?"

billet
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:20 pm
Organization: Fringe
Graduation Year: 2000
Real Name: Ken Billet

Re: Wow

Postby billet » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:30 pm

Regrettable for SDC and everyone involved.

Rules should be simpler than they are, not more complicated. Specifying a radius just adds to it. Then we will have other loopholes to jump through.

One thing I will support though is that sweepstakes was put in a position where they had to make a decision. And they made it. No different than a referee in any sport. It isn't always fair, but that is the decision. When a sports team doesn't like the call, it can't ask that the game be reset from the point where they made the call, have a new outcome, and then decide later if the ref was right. Annoyingly, you live with the decision. I really don't like to hear that they had to get the administration involved. It isn't their place.

I am happy to hear that SDC has been classy. I hope that continues for everyone involved here. It was probably not easy for sweepstakes.

User avatar
galexkeene
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:43 pm
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2008
Real Name: Alex Keene

Re: Wow

Postby galexkeene » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:36 pm


Carleton
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:16 am
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2007
Real Name: Drew Carleton
Location: Maryland

Re: Wow

Postby Carleton » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:41 pm

Rules shouldn't be vague either. Obviously there are different ideas of what "near" means. Just because you might be adding more words by defining that term doesn't mean it is complicating things, it is actually simplifying things.

Keep in mind that in professional sports, referee's and umpires are trained professionals that have extensive knowledge of their sport's rule book and the meaning of each rule.

billet
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:20 pm
Organization: Fringe
Graduation Year: 2000
Real Name: Ken Billet

Re: Wow

Postby billet » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:51 pm

Maybe one approach is to get a more permanent official. Get three people who can commit to being an official for 5 years, put one in front truck, one in back truck and another at the top of the hill/drop line. These three are responsible for understanding the rules and applying them in real time with no appeals.

Not saying this is better, just an idea for discussion...

User avatar
lemuroid
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:41 pm
Organization: Ultimate Soap Box Derby
2nd Organization: SigNu
Graduation Year: 1987
Real Name: Mark Estes
Location: Calabasas CA or Sunnyvale CA
Contact:

Re: Wow

Postby lemuroid » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:06 pm


Carleton
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:16 am
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2007
Real Name: Drew Carleton
Location: Maryland

Re: Wow

Postby Carleton » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:22 pm

No Mark, if you look at what he was quoting, he was merely responding to the comparison that "real" sports don't second guess calls because they don't have the ability to go back and restart the game from that point. Whereas in buggy, if a bad call is made, rerolls are how buggy is able to "go back" so to speak. He wasn't saying that in reference to a safety violation call. But he was saying that just like Pika was given a 4th reroll (which I'm not sure is even allowed by the rules) which was later repealed, SDC could have been allowed to roll and have the times discounted later to allow time for a more thorough decision process. Obviously it has been debated that the decision made prior to the races was thorough enough. It's also been debated that the long deliberations caused unwanted delay.

billet
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:20 pm
Organization: Fringe
Graduation Year: 2000
Real Name: Ken Billet

Re: Wow

Postby billet » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:07 pm

I am trying to say that there needs to be more reverence for those that make the call. Rule number one should be "the head judge is final and if you appeal to other school officials, you will be fined $15k." That would solve the delay problem.

I am trying to say that officials make decisions and 90% are right and 10% are wrong. Oh well. Life sucks. Life is arbitrarily unfair. Should SDC have been disqualified? I don't know. But the official made the call and we move on. No rolling just in case they got it wrong so we can go into a back room and discuss. Throw the penalty flag, have the ref with microphone announce it, and everyone moves on. To do this, you need an authority. And while sweepstakes attempts to do this with the sweepstakes committee, it isn't enough. These are students who are peers to the competitors. They are subject to intimidation, pressure of getting something right, perhaps of bias. Get a 40 year old who is well respected and knowledgeable about buggy, put them in as head official, and if students want to hate on that person because he interpreted that the propane tank was too close, then they can take their ball and go home.

I think there is some similarity to sports and we should think about taking some lessons learned from it.

Carleton
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:16 am
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2007
Real Name: Drew Carleton
Location: Maryland

Re: Wow

Postby Carleton » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:29 pm

That's an interesting proposal, not that I entirely think it's a good idea. I think it would be challenging to find a person of any age who "is well respected and knowledgeable about buggy" who has no affiliation or bias toward a team.

Also, keep in mind that professional sports do have appeal processes for situations like athlete suspensions, which is more akin to certain situations in buggy than a field call.


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