DSCF2443

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  • Mark Estes on 2012-Apr-22 22:53:57 Mark Estes said

    These are some great shots. As much as I like the AEND / ZE wheels, they seem to carry some risk of unexpected tire to rim failure. We have seen this happen in practice to sdc and on race day to PKA and Sigma Nu. now unfortunately it has happened to fringe's women's a team. Feel bad for the driver and the rest of the team. Love her game face in these photos. Unlike other quick wheels in the past that could feed the rubber chickens and still finish, this failure mode seems to be terminal to the roll. That has gotta make the folks who use these a bit worried.
  • CRStengel on 2012-Apr-22 22:58:44 CRStengel said

    Great shot, Shafeeq!
  • the cook on 2012-Apr-23 11:57:49 the cook said

    Hey Neal, Got Glue? You clown munch.
  • Mark Estes on 2012-Apr-23 14:59:57 Mark Estes said

    And one wonders how much, if at all, this effected the fringe men's A roll. Haven't looked at free roll times but that would tell the story.
  • Ben Matzke on 2012-Apr-23 15:45:13 Ben Matzke said

    From what I hear, these were new wheels without much in the way of wear or anything that could have deteriorated the compounds/adhesives. To make sure they played it a little safe for the men's roll, which could have cost them the race, but pushing for the same speed could have meant they wouldn't have had a trophy, which trade would you take?
  • hmm.... on 2012-Apr-23 16:57:00 hmm.... said

    From what I've heard through the rumor mill, the wheel PU was re-glued on to the rim for the men's A race, which would explain a lot.
    I would have thought Fringe would have a ton of replacements in a box somewhere in their truck!

    In any case, I think we've all determined through SEVERAL incidents (and the cook's eerie prediction) that maybe the ZE/AEND wheels aren't worth the risk... unless: you are PiKA, getting their primo wheel tech, or you can find a way to re-bond their wheels.
  • Jerry on 2012-Apr-23 16:59:27 Jerry said

    It's been confirmed that these wheels were brand new and had never been rolled before that heat.

    The rumor mill is spouting out such fantastical nuggets of gossip as "Fringe wants to get ZE's banned from Sweepstakes" and "Fringe is filing a class-action lawsuit against ZE" etc. etc.
  • sdc anon on 2012-Apr-23 18:07:55 sdc anon said

    As an sdc alum, hearing the rumor mill vs. knowing the truth about our own organization, we just laugh about everything everyone says. There are some serious offenders who clearly just make shit up and present it as fact, because they know it can't or won't be refuted.

    Another alum literally just christened the fringe wheel gluing thing as "the stupidest thing (he's) ever heard." I think that may be a stretch given the things we've heard about sdc, but there are still going to be people who believe it. And really the only refutation, which is the truth--fringe used fresh wheels for their men's a--is so self evident it's a waste of everybody's time to even mention it. Did fringe use new bearings too, or can their slow down this year be attributed to making their own out of pebbles they polished in a rock tumbler because they can't afford new things like sdc? (Challenge accepted on stupidest buggy rumor).

    People should show more respect for the students involved, but they don't. Fringe had a (for them) bad year in that they didn't achieve their full potential, and they still got second. So, congratulations to them for that. I don't want to start any rumors, but I'd bet Fringe's goal is to outclass the field and they'll be working hard to meet their potential next year. Good luck to them. I'm hoping sdc will be doing the same thing. I'll wish more luck (which is what it often comes down to) to them.
  • Franklin Delano Bluth on 2012-Apr-23 18:33:18 Franklin Delano Bluth said

    Ignoring Fringe's new ring-toss toy, the uneven hatch popping up makes it look like Bonsai is snarling at the camera.
  • Ben Matzke on 2012-Apr-23 18:59:10 Ben Matzke said

    Not sure where you're getting the idea that people don't have respect for Fringe, "SDC anon"... Everyone that knows buggy even a little bit understands the feeling that they must be feeling. We are all sorry for what happened to them, but the sad part is, there's nothing we can do about it.

    Quite frankly, they're already outclassing people in that they know it was a terrible incident, but they didn't let it go to their head. No one here is disrespecting the organization and particularly the students who run it, we're just poking fun at a fantastic wheel that is available to the public that apparently has some catastrophic failure modes, and a team that is a dominant force who knows when a joke or two is harmless and maybe they can even laugh at it themselves.
  • AndyBroski on 2012-Apr-23 19:31:54 AndyBroski said

    http://imgur.com/idr8m
  • Ben Matzke on 2012-Apr-23 19:34:56 Ben Matzke said

    Bahahaha, exactly
  • the cook on 2012-Apr-23 20:24:47 the cook said

    you know the shame of it is - it is so very easy to make sure this doesn't happen. Have you ever seen a stock Xootr fly off the rim?

    Somewhere in my email archives from 2008 or so I have a nice email from the guilty party talking about how they use the "clear" version of the bonding agent, so it doesn't mar the urethane color. This explanation does make sense, except the first order of these wheels I got IMMEDIATELY fell of the rim when I did certain unmentionable things to them, the same things that affected stock Xootr wheels not at all. Later orders did not suffer this problem, so I assumed it went away, until recently.

    Xootrs have an obvious blue layer that is the bonding agent. The blue has two functions - to show you that the rim has been coated evenly, and to make sure you didn't miss one entirely. These tasks are far more difficult if the primer is crystal clear.
  • blue on 2012-Apr-23 20:48:55 blue said

    but Broski! http://imgur.com/AKlYm
  • shafeeq on 2012-Apr-23 20:49:00 shafeeq said

    So, some of these failures are of allegedly brand new wheels, and some of old wheels that presumably had survived their unmentionable ordeal in past years? The question for the future is, will the factory up their game? Or will the teams that use them have to figure out how to weed out the duds? Or a way to keep bond failure from being a terminal event? In the early days of a certain inline wheel manufacturer, they produced a large number of wheels with eccentric rims. Annoying for the customer to have to purchase 50% more wheels to get a usable set, but, hey, sales were up...
  • Carl Nott on 2012-Apr-23 21:29:33 Carl Nott said

    With a good application of primer and adhesive to a well-prepped rim this should not happen. I've had urethane fail without coming off the rim. I've had (non-Xootr) rims fail before the urethane came off the rim. I've chemically treated urethane to the point where it effectively turns inside-out without the adhesive failing. I've heated urethane to where it drops off the rim without the adhesive failing.

    I will say that people often underestimate the amount of force being put on a urethane tire when it's making the turn though, and it's easy to skimp on rim prep and adhesive since it's a pain in the ass to do correctly.
  • the Pope on 2012-Apr-24 00:52:19 the Pope said

    I am with Carl and the cook on this one. A properly primed urethane to aluminum bond will not act like this. it should be simple to avoid but it starts with the molder. This is the only down side to what is otherwise a very durable wheel. They take a beating that would shred lesser tires.

    As for gluing the tire back on, I say bullshit to the 4th or 5th power. Not only a silly idea when there are obvious spares in the fringe truck, it is also nearly impossible. The tire ID tends to be larger than the rim OD once the bond is broken. There are a few unlucky people who know this first hand from buggy (PKA, SN, SDC and now Fringe) as well as a few from derby (like my buddy John Wargo) who know this from direct experience.

    The unmentionable things you can do to add haste to these wheels and the forces in the chute should not be creating enough issues to break the pu to rim bond if properly primed ( the pu should go first) . Unfortunately, the bond is not reliable enough and thus, we have avoided rolling such wheels in anger since we figured this out.

    I suspect the reward is worth the risk until something quicker or just as fast and more reliable can be found. winning tires in the past were not perfect either.
  • the cook on 2012-Apr-24 01:21:07 the cook said

    its not that hard to do, a good cook can do it for $50 using his home oven, but later his kids will claim the tater tots taste like glue
  • the cook on 2012-Apr-24 01:22:20 the cook said

    prepping the rims that is, not gluing tires back on
  • Carl Nott on 2012-Apr-24 04:40:38 Carl Nott said

    Yeah, for anyone doing this at home, be sure to cure the primer in a ventilated oven that you will never use for foodstuffs. I made the mistake of doing my first batch in the unventilated drying oven at work and it was... unpleasant.

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