IMG 9639


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  • DAConley on 2017-Apr-16 22:11:42 DAConley said

    Looks like another year where we fail to lay out the lanes to their full extent, creating a measurable advantage for anyone in Lane 1 - cutting the corner and effectively shortening the course. (See Sec 5.2 in 'Course Description' of the rules) If buggies are being shoved from this point and tangent to the curb, which has been the practice in recent years, they are cutting right through Lane 2 and should be DQ'd. Perhaps all these times should have an (*) next to them??

    Willing to be proven wrong by tape measure!

    Any chance Sweepstakes will correct this issue for the race?
  • Ben Matzke on 2017-Apr-17 00:07:00 Ben Matzke said

    I think that section is the last one that they haven't yet finished. Those lines still look like the faded ones from last year.
  • anon on 2017-Apr-17 17:36:03 anon said

    Only checked as far back as 2008, but when the record was broken then, the lane lines were significantly shorter than they have been the last 2 years, pretty much ended before the bend of hill 2.

    That's a lot of times you'd have to tack astersisks onto...
  • DAConley on 2017-Apr-17 22:23:38 DAConley said

    Anon - that's exactly the point....the hill gets shorter and shorter, and the stagger is eliminated. Lane 1 is now a shorter course than the others. Look at pics from the '70s, '80s, even '90s for comparison. Lane 'should' end around the lower end of that sidewalk cut with Lane 1 and Lane 2 both finishing on the right side of the double yellow.
  • wah on 2017-Apr-17 22:51:50 wah said

    Okay, let's retcon all of sweepstakes up until the point at which the ideal one true pure raceday has been determined!
  • Anon on 2017-Apr-17 23:18:00 Anon said

    And my point being that it's not nearly as bad as it was 3 years ago...
  • Crotchety old guy on 2017-Apr-18 04:46:42 Crotchety old guy said

    I love the typical Millenial response. Well. It's not as bad as it once was. How about the idea that's it's just not as good as it can be. Geez. Is excellence so hard?
  • The cook on 2017-Apr-18 11:23:10 The cook said

    I held a flag to signal if our buggy was safe to cut over on 2 in 1985. So add the asterisk please
  • millennial scum on 2017-Apr-18 14:14:55 millennial scum said

    i love the typical grouchy old fucks can't deal with being irrelevant and ignored so i'll just demand that the kids these days do my bidding instead of leaving them alone to run their own races. geez. is getting the stick out of your asses so hard? who caaaares.
  • DAConley on 2017-Apr-18 15:11:38 DAConley said

    Anon - you are correct, yes, better than in years past and I hope Sweepstakes gets the lanes correct for the race.

    As for 'millennial scum' the point you seem not to be able to grasp is the one of TRADITION that this race is all about. Everyone wants to claim a new record, but if the course that record was set on was 30 feet shorter than say the one the Spirit team ran in '88, you think they'll be happy with that? If the straight line hill is better for gaining speed than the curved one Duane had to run on means one of today's buggy's is perceived to be faster than one run in the mid '80's...think he'll be content with that? If you want to compare year over year, you have to keep things constant. There will always be year to year conditions that impact the race results - weather, new asphalt, that stupid bike lane green gritty stuff, potholes, etc. as there is with any outdoor race course, but the race course itself should be consistent.

    The hypothetical 30' shorter distance @ say a 10mph footspeed with buggy on Hill 2 would be ~ 2sec. Seems relevant to year over year comparisons doesn't it? As is typically the case, someone will take exception to the numbers, so go take the measurements, and give us the real math please.

    TRADITION drives this whole event and draws alumni interest in Carnival. Maybe one day you'll appreciate that.
  • Shafeeq on 2017-Apr-18 15:16:07 Shafeeq said

    At least the new record is safe - regardless of where the lines were, SDC wasn't going to protest their A team cutting across the B team's lane.

    "Eh, good enough, why try harder?" has been around buggy for quite a long time.
  • Ben Matzke on 2017-Apr-18 16:02:46 Ben Matzke said

    not an exact measurement, but the lines in the picture look near identical to the ones show in this video:

    though I've never been known for my eyesight
  • millennial scum on 2017-Apr-18 16:08:32 millennial scum said

    thanks for your detailed clarification, mr. conley! can't wait to reach that level of dissatisfaction with my life!

    hope you have a nice carnival :)
  • Millennial Falcon on 2017-Apr-19 20:35:13 Millennial Falcon said

    @Millenial Scum

    Bless your heart you're on your way to joining him!
  • Jerry on 2017-Apr-19 23:09:09 Jerry said

    I don't particularly care how far the lane markings go on Hill 2, with regards to course time - you could accomplish the same thing by shifting the starting points for lanes 2 and 4 up the hill by however many feet we judge to be fair.

    What I'm concerned about is the frequent collision hazard we see between buggies at the top of the hill. Not only is it one of the course's most dangerous spots, when buggies contact each other up there it sets off a hurricane of rules slapfights, controversial DQs, and alumni shitposting, none of which are great for the sport. This will be a problem wherever the lane lines end.

    I know this flies in the face of everyone's precious TRADITION, but what if we staggered the start of the races? Three buggies per heat, but the lanes start exactly five seconds apart. A false start is still an enforceable penalty, and adjusting the final time is trivial enough. This will make Hill 1 a little less exciting, sure, but five seconds is a huge difference for buggy spacing at the top of the hill and in the chute, while giving the flaggers more reaction time. Plus there will still be backhill passes. It would go a long way toward making the sport safer.

    Also, as a millennial, I'd like to point out, tongue firmly planted in cheek, that the baby boomers were the ones who wrote these rules and left us to clean up their mess, while complaining that we just don't understand the value of tradition and hard work. How typical ;)
  • hvincent on 2017-Apr-20 01:39:25 hvincent said

    I always thought heat selection was supposed to avoid the situation of everyone getting to the top of the hill at the same time, but somehow, there's always some heat when the trailing hill 2 pusher suddenly gets really excited and slams dunks a buggy into the freeroll at the last second? How many hill 2 collisions have we had in recent history, anyway? My impression is that there's been at least one or two a year in the past dozen racedays or so.

    The other part of this is that drivers very rarely get to practice having a buggy coming up quickly in their peripheral vision and adjusting accordingly, or passing really close at that point in the course. Of course everyone's going to target-lock onto the curb at the apex of that curve; it's the best position for the freeroll. I don't know what current driving protocol is, but my memories of my training/instinct is basically, just fucking yield, the buggy in front has the right of way because they can't see you! If it's a significant enough correction that it might affect your roll time, ask for a re-roll!

    It's kind of unfortunate that this source of disputes is so hard to avoid; a staggered timing start would alleviate this (you'd still have to be careful with heat selection so you don't put, say, an A team coming up on the heels of a C team), but I really doubt it'll happen because it'll take away some sense of the Race part of Raceday.
  • Ben Matzke on 2017-Apr-20 01:53:44 Ben Matzke said

    Certain notable alumni strongly advocate for a time-trial style Raceday with no heats.
  • anon on 2017-Apr-20 02:00:55 anon said

    How many of Buggy's serious accidents (or feuds?) have started from top of the hill collisons?

    None in my memory.

    How many times do both teams get awarded rerolls?

    Always in my memory.

    It's really not a huge deal, obviously if it's easily avoidable by doing some simple swaps at heat selection, then yes do it. But the most dangerous and contentious buggy collisions never occur at the top of hill 2, but rather closer to the chute...
  • hvincent on 2017-Apr-20 02:02:02 hvincent said

    While we're sharing raceday infrastructure hopes and dreams, how about a system so that women's teams aren't always stuck getting the shaft for heat times?

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