Proposed Rule Changes

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ahundt
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Proposed Rule Changes

Postby ahundt » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:40 pm

Thanks! On Monday I'd like to vote in a few rules changes after we do nominations. The first four are just wording changes which make the rules more in line with what we actually do.

The last one is new. I expect discussion on this one!

If you have any problems with these, as always it's better to bring that up ahead of time! And if you have any additional changes you think should be made to the rules, let's do those as well!

7.2.4 First Roll Speed Restrictions
the first roll after being involved in an accident (as per rule 7.3) for all drivers, except on Raceday, and any time the safety chair deems it necessary for the safety of the buggy’s driver.

4.4.1 Race Entry Fees

... by the Sweepstakes Advisor or the Sweepstakes Chairman. Race entry fees shall be paid separately for each class of race competition.

First Entry (Men's/Women's) $50.75
Second Entry (Men's/Women's) $36.25
Third Entry (Men's/Women's) $21.75
Fourth Entry (Men's/Women's) $21.75
10.4.7 Finals Races
The eight highest ranked entries from the women’s preliminary races shall be eligible to compete in the women’s finals races.

12.1 Races

The entries placing in the top six final standings of the Men’s races and top four final standings of the Women’s races shall receive awards.

This next one is new! It's a new section that would go in between Buggy Procedures after an Accident and Accident Safety Measures

7.3.2 Accident Procedures

Driver Condition After an Accident

If the driver of a buggy involved in an accident is taken to the hospital due to severe injuries, that driver should not attempt to drive a buggy until they have received permission from their doctor that it is safe to do so. The Safety Chairman should verify that this permission has been received.
Andrew Hundt
Sweepstakes Chairman 2009 | Head Judge 2010 | Fringe Mechanic 2006, 2007, 2008 | Fringe Pusher 2006, 2007

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ahundt
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes

Postby ahundt » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:42 pm

I accidentally posted too early, but I guess people will figure it out. Elon did a great job on Raceday, and he has proposed some new rule changes on the chairmen list. Here are my comments:

For bagging I would use the term "during Freeroll Practice" rather than "except Raceday". It may need to go somewhere else in the sentence to be correct.

Clarifying the fees sounds good. Why do they need to be increased is sweepstakes short on funds?

I like the spirit of asking for a doctor's permission after hospital trips but I would at least replace the term "severe injuries". I suggest finding a document from professional injury regulations, perhaps in OSHA, ANSI, or ISO regulations, that has a legally meaningful definition for injuries and use that. People also legally have the right to refuse medical care, and they participate in other athletic events with injuries all the time so I'm conflicted on the usefulness or correctness of that rule.

I'd also be wary of codifying a different number of placements between men and women. The rule as written is ripe for criticism at some point in the future. If female participation eventually equals male participation the same number should qualify. It may also violate Title II regulations to codify a difference between men and women. I suggest finding an alternative definition or not changing at all even though that is an annoying inconsistency between the rules and the way races are actually run.
Andrew Hundt
Sweepstakes Chairman 2009 | Head Judge 2010 | Fringe Mechanic 2006, 2007, 2008 | Fringe Pusher 2006, 2007

da Pope
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes

Postby da Pope » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:54 pm

I am all for safety but one might think that being released from the ER or hospital without restriction on activities or having whatever restrictions are places expire ( i.e. "take it easy for a few days", or "come see me again") or at least being free to drive a car or ride a bike, would be sufficient to allow a driver to drive. What if the doctor involved thinks buggy is too risky for anyone and thus will never give their blessing?

We do not seek doctor clearance for drivers prior to a wreck, so why add this? This seems like a way to make it harder to drive and I am not clear on what problem this solves.

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Re: Proposed Rule Changes

Postby shafeeq » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:58 pm

7.2.4: So, with the limted practice time available, you lose a roll to the crash, you lose rolls to getting the buggy fixed, and then you also lose one more to being bagged? On the one hand, this codifies common sense for inexperienced drivers. But high-speed driving is disproportionately difficult, so the fast drivers need all the practice at speed that they can get. If the driver is willing to get back on the horse immediately, a fast roll is more useful practice than a slow one. So leave this one to the safety chair's discretion based on the situation. Also, why is Raceday special? A crash is a crash, right?

7.3.2: This is a world of hurt. I suspect the goal is "the driver must have recovered enough that the previous injury does not increase the chance of future severe injury". The driver chose to take on the risk of driving in the first place, so why isn't she trusted to make the decision on when she's ready to drive again? Because she (or the team) is competitive enough to hurry up her return rather than lose a team? If you're going to worry about that, you also need to worry that drivers & teams will try to avoid going to the hospital, knowing that returning may be delayed.

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Elmo Zoneball
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes

Postby Elmo Zoneball » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:03 pm

7.3.2 Accident Procedures

Driver Condition After an Accident

If the driver of a buggy involved in an accident is taken to the hospital due to severe injuries, that driver should not attempt to drive a buggy until they have received permission from their doctor that it is safe to do so. The Safety Chairman should verify that this permission has been received.


I think this will prove to be impractical. First of all, it creates work for doctors, who are already overwhelmed with all manner of regulatory red tape and bureaucratic effluvia. Moreover, such a document puts the legal liability on the doctor; ergo, no doctor will write such a letter until after the student graduates from CMU, just to be sure they don't get sued.

An alternative proposal: a letter of self-certification signed any driver who goes to the hospital before being allowed to participate. The self-certification would simply state that the undersign certifies they have no known medical condition or circumstance, or a restriction from a medical authority treating them, that would be an impediment to their safe operation of a Sweepstakes racing vehicle, and that they release and hold harmless CMU, Sweepstakes, BAA, Walt Disney, Snow White, and the Seven Dwarfs, if they get injured and were not truthful in signing the release form.

This is similar to pilots who self-certify for a Sports Pilot certificate, in lieu of a doctor's affirmative approval.
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes

Postby DAConley » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:17 pm

'Bagging' a buggy is just stupid, not to mention embarrassing for a 'top technical school'. This was a newer rule that many older alums don't understand. An organization should be able to control the speed of their buggy down the course without a piece of plastic tapped to the pushbar, and if they don't know how...just ask an org that does. Not too hard to figure out. Loose this one immediately and replace it with a requirement for the 1st roll to be 'speed limited', itself likely a judgement call from the Safety Chair in the turn. Simple enough.

We have many well thought out safety focused rules that have existed for a long time, and for good reason. Why don't we start by enforcing those first before creating new ones? I'm talking about acrylic windshields vs polycarbonate, no locking hardware on steering mechanisms/wheels, how freeroll operations are run - ex: (2) mins per org to roll - which will drastically increase the number of rolls (aka 'practice') for each buggy/driver/team. All these are immediate safety gains....no vote needed.

The BAA sponsored 'forum' on Friday touched on many of these exact issues. We want the sport safer, more competitive, more inclusive...let's focus on the rules in hand. If Sweepstakes needs help to understand and enforce the rules, ask for help. There are many knowledgable alums willing to help.

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Abby
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes

Postby Abby » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:10 pm

What do the drivers think of these rules changes?

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Re: Proposed Rule Changes

Postby da Pope » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:22 pm

I cannot imagine that they would be all that receptive to being treated like they cannot make up their own mind about what risks to take and how to live their lives. I am still waiting for someone to tell me what problem these silly rules solves.

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Re: Proposed Rule Changes

Postby Rachael » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:49 am

I was Apex's head driver for this past year. This rule change is not only absurd and impractical, it's insulting. Drivers understand what they are getting into, and this is why we have driver's meetings and release of liability paperwork. Being 'cleared' for activity after a hospital visit is between the patient and their doctor, not sweepstakes. If I need to get doctor clearance submitted to Sweepstakes to drive after crashing a buggy, it stands to reason that I should also need doctor clearance submitted to Sweepstakes to drive after going to the hospital because I fell off a ladder.

If Carnegie Mellon University as a whole wants to add additional protection for their student athletes, that's their right, and they should do it in a confidential and appropriate way that does not involve other students. But making this a Sweepstakes issue is wrong, and an abuse of power.

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Re: Proposed Rule Changes

Postby Abby » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:50 am

Thanks, Mark, that was my point exactly.

Drivers know the risks better than any of you big people. They know when they are too hurt to drive, they know when they are going too fast. I would have thought that, 1.7 million years after I graduated, buggy would have evolved beyond the "drivers are adorable monkeys!" mentality. Notsomuch.

Allow me suggest that you ASK THEM what they think.


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