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Passing - Page 6 - Buggy Alumni Association

Passing

User avatar
galexkeene
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:43 pm
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2008
Real Name: Alex Keene

Re: Passing

Postby galexkeene » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:52 pm

Sorry to screw up the name, not sure where that came from. I think I pushed your name and that SpazRulz or whatever in my head together. Apologies.

Still curious about Pika's choice to (from what I heard) change their Hill 1 A team from their submitted roster on day 1.

Also, there was no malicious intent in setting the teams, and I'm guessing they knew exactly who would be that Hill 1 even at heat selection. We just had fast pushers this year in general. Actually, last years SDC A H4 was on C team this year because B and A were faster. He would have been there second day too if not for the dq. It wasn't some roster trickery.

User avatar
hvincent
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:15 am
Organization: Pioneers
2nd Organization: CIA
Graduation Year: 2009
Real Name: Vincent Zeng
Location: mmch
Contact:

Re: Passing

Postby hvincent » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:06 pm

I mean, when you have three guys who can all run 16-18s for hill 1, you're just going to have three teams posting awesome hill times. It's not really plausible to say there has to be a measured difference of 2 seconds between your pushers on different teams, and considering SDC's current reputation for being huge and smashing records, I'd believe that there are at least 3 people on their team capable of running a hill that fast and also don't have a place anywhere else on the roster. It's also kind of hard to get an accurate guess at who's going to do best on which hill/team when everyone's pushing ability is already so close; everyone will probably be performing to the max on raceday, but for push practice/rolls/whatever they're just not going to be tapping all their juice for the sake of getting a few numbers out.

I don't believe there was any malicious intent from either team, either; last year, at the final heat selection meeting, there was some question of Pika and SDC running too close at hill 2 (it turns out that they were actually spaced a second or two apart, but the Pika chair insisted it would be much closer) and the heats were shuffled in an attempt to prevent this. If the question is how can we prevent two (or three) teams with identical hill 1-2 times to race together in the future, I don't know that there's a good answer for it as long as all teams are being honest with their reported times at heat selection.
Vincent Zeng


josh.ayers
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:25 am
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2003
Real Name: Josh Ayers
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Passing

Postby josh.ayers » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:26 pm


Carleton
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:16 am
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2007
Real Name: Drew Carleton
Location: Maryland

Re: Passing

Postby Carleton » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:34 pm

If you go by when the nose of the buggy hit the first transition line, I stopped the video at around 17 seconds on that clock. Clearly fast, but nothing like what we've seen from Pika A in past years.

PikesOnce
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:44 pm
Organization: PiKA

Re: Passing

Postby PikesOnce » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:35 pm

So - sometime during heat selection, if SDC isn't trying to create a situation where they are unexpectedly playing bumper buggies with PiKA, they have to mention something like "We will shove off perhaps 1 - 1.5 seconds slower than our A-team". Nobody should expect a C-team to roll that fast over the top; PiKA shouldn't be responsible to know that. Kudos to them, sure, it's a great time for any team, but if you're hiding that at team selection there's something wrong.

If memory serves me, heat selection goes down the order of teams. So PiKA would've chosen their heat prior to SDC's C-team choosing a heat. An SDC chairman would've then chosen a heat, and would've known pretty well what PiKA A would run on 1-2, and should've said that their C-team would be a bit too fast to be safe.

It's not as if PiKA walked in asking to roll with a C-team, they walked in asking for the latest heat possible in lane 1, just like every other A-team asks for.

Not saying that SDC shouldn't have 3 teams with very solid 1-2 times, just saying they should know that they will do that and stay away from the other teams who will put up similar 1-2 times.

Also - to penguin's point - watch as he crosses the transition zone for 1-2; that's at 16.8 or so. The 1-2 over the top time is what's relevant to compare between teams that do 1-2 transitions differently.

User avatar
galexkeene
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:43 pm
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2008
Real Name: Alex Keene

Re: Passing

Postby galexkeene » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:53 pm

I think I've said this two or three times now:

SDC DID SAY THEY WOULD BE FAST! They were assured by Pika that their Hill 1 would be at least 1 second faster than SDC, and thus would have no problem getting over the hill first. Pika then CHANGED their hill 1 with a roster sub, I assume to someone slower (they moved their scheduled Hill 1 to 4 I believe?). You have still yet to address the Hill 1 change in any of this.

PikesOnce
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:44 pm
Organization: PiKA

Re: Passing

Postby PikesOnce » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:02 pm

So now we're back to this, and the point is totally moot unless someone who was at heat selection from neither PiKA or SDC chimes in.

I'm not positive what was happening with the hill 1's, but it's rather irrelevant - PiKA's A-team has veto power on who rolls in their heat at team selection. If SDC isn't explicit about the time they'll roll, then it's unreasonable for PiKA to know to veto them.

User avatar
galexkeene
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:43 pm
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2008
Real Name: Alex Keene

Re: Passing

Postby galexkeene » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:06 pm

Well seeing as the kids told me the that Pika said they would be 1 second faster, I assume there were some numbers shared on both sides in order for that math to work out, and I know they would use our push practice times (which are of course going to be a bit slower than raceday given all condition differences)

With regards to someone who was there, check your private messages.

User avatar
revo
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:37 pm
Organization: Fringe
2nd Organization: Sweepstakes
Graduation Year: 2000
Real Name: Scott Ziolko
Location: SoCal

Re: Passing

Postby revo » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:29 am


Carleton
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:16 am
Organization: SDC
Graduation Year: 2007
Real Name: Drew Carleton
Location: Maryland

Re: Passing

Postby Carleton » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:15 pm

Revo, I'm pretty sure that the 2:50 mechanical malfunction time was our men's B team for that year. Because of the skewed seeding, the decision was made at heat selection to roll our C team in the B team seed spot, and the B in the C team's. I believe that's what you were indicating anyway, I just wanted to preemptively add some clarification.
Last edited by Carleton on Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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