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5 second rule - Buggy Alumni Association

5 second rule

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jixson
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5 second rule

Postby jixson » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:15 pm

Let's talk about something actually related to Buggy. Looking back at the raceday thread, there seemed to be some strong opinions concerning this rule, both about it's enforcement and lack there of. I'm curious what the Buggy community thinks about it. Does it do more harm than good? Should it be kept, removed, or maybe changed in some way?

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Re: 5 second rule

Postby Carl Nott » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:58 pm

Personally I would prefer it if 5 second violations, pacing, and transition/lane violations resulted in a yellow card, if you will, in that the team must take a reroll and their final time becomes the slowest roll between the flagged roll and the reroll.

No hand on pushbar, crashing into another buggy, etc., would still get red cards.

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Re: 5 second rule

Postby swiftsam » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:18 pm


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Re: 5 second rule

Postby jixson » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:33 pm

I was thinking maybe for what you would refer to as yellow-card violations, we could just do what most racing sports do and give out time penalties, just slap on 5 seconds to the final time and call it a day

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Re: 5 second rule

Postby shafeeq » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:59 pm

I agree, it'd be nice to have penalties than aren't all or nothing. On the other hand, is there much of a difference between a DQ and adding 5 or 10s to someone's time? Plus, keeping track of results becomes more complicated - "was that 2:05 with or without a penalty?".

For good teams, picking up a penalty in prelims is only going to change which final heat they end up in, unless the penalty carries over. And if it does carry over to finals, and your A team is carrying a penalty, you can still play the alternate game and move the pushers to your un-penalized B team. I think this is actually worse, because now the 11th fastest team doesn't get into finals, and your B team pushers take one for the team.

Breaking the 5-second rule doesn't have much excuse - you know when you have to be ready, and if you want to wait right to the limit because you think that gives you an advantage, then you better be certain you're not going to wait too long. The Derby folks's lazy approach was kind of surprising to me - their margins of victory are tiny compared to buggy, and yet they are unconcerned about leaving their wheels on the ground for ages. Then again, I wouldn't want to carry a 200lb car all the time.

I can understand messing up transitions in the excitement of the day - 1s penalty for every foot the transition is late? Same thing for how far over the drop test line you go?
I liked the false-start rule speedskating used to have - instead of getting DQ'd, you have to start from the penalty start line, so your race is 6' longer.

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Re: 5 second rule

Postby jixson » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:52 pm


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Re: 5 second rule

Postby Jerry » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:50 pm

I find the idea of having two tiers of punishment (yellow card = time penalty, red card = DQ) to be very appealing, because some DQs are serious safety risks (failing drops, any form of spin/crash, interference) while others are technicalities of the sport (5sec rule, transition zones, finish line hand-on-pushbar). If we decide to split up the infractions into two levels, it will be a little tough to decide which go in which categories. Also, all of the yellow card penalties could conceivably be violated so thoroughly that a red card might be deserved. Judges' discretion?

Another reason I like this idea is because when a team gets disqualified for breaking one of the non-safety-focused rules, the disappointment can be crushing enough to actually be a turn-off to the sport. I'm sure I speak for more than one person.

So let's say a yellow card is a 5sec penalty to the team's time. If a team gets two yellow cards in a roll, should they get a 10sec penalty, or be disqualified?

When you guys say "carry the penalty over" do you mean applying the same penalty to the second-day time, no matter what? I feel like the finalists should be given another chance. Maybe a day 2 infraction (of the same kind, or any) could be an automatic red card. I do agree with the idea of locking teams with the exception of injuries. Would the head judge have to approve roster changes?

We'd obviously need to make the time penalty big enough that a net gain couldn't be achieved by breaking a rule (i.e. deliberately missing the pushbar for a faster finish). A 5sec penalty wouldn't push a team down too far in the standings, whereas a 10sec one would be enough to knock any but the fastest A-teams out of the finals.

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Re: 5 second rule

Postby TommyK » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:23 pm


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Re: 5 second rule

Postby JakeReid » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:36 pm


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Re: 5 second rule

Postby jixson » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:45 pm



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